Quest News     Volume 12 No. 21   November 9, 2005
Compiled & written by Mike Fitzpatrick

Bush Supreme Court Pick Once Backed Privacy, Gay Rights
Washington, DC - President George W. Bush’s October 31 announcement latest selection of Samuel A. Alito Jr.for the Supreme Court, just days following the withdrawal of White House counsel Harriet Miers for the position elicited the expected hue and cry from the nation’s political left and right. But the November 2 revelation by the Boston Globe of a strongly pro-gay document authored by the nominee has both sides wondering just conservative the President’s selection may be.
  As a senior at Princeton University, Alito chaired an undergraduate task force that recommended the decriminalization of sodomy, accused the CIA and the FBI of invading the privacy of citizens, and said discrimination against gays in hiring “should be forbidden.”  The startling 1971 report by Alito and 16 other Princeton students, stemmed from a class assignment to study the “boundaries of privacy in American society” and to recommend ways to protect individual rights.
  The far-ranging report, which satisfied a requirement for public policy students and which was stored in the university’s Seeley G. Mudd Manuscript Library, was unearthed by Globe correspondents Christian R. Burset and Alan Wirzbicki. That document has provided a glimpse of a possibly more liberal Alito than the jurist is now perceived.
  “We sense a great threat to privacy in modern America,” Alito wrote in a foreword to the report. “We all believe that privacy is too often sacrificed to other values; we all believe that the threat to privacy is steadily and rapidly mounting; we all believe that action must be taken on many fronts now to preserve privacy.”
   A classmate, Jeffrey G. Weil, told Burset and Wirzbicki that Alito, one of the top seniors in his class, had been selected to advise juniors writing the report, coaching them through the research and then writing an introduction explaining their recommendations.
  Alito was “not a person who has an agenda in terms of changing the world,” Weil said. He is now a lawyer in Philadelphia. His role was mostly advisory, noted Weil, who wrote the section of the report dealing with gay rights but who said he could not remember whether Alito personally agreed with the recommendations.
  The Supreme Court did not strike down laws prohibiting gay sex until the Lawrence v. Texas case in 2003. Many social conservatives have criticized that decision.
  As a judge, Alito has not ruled on any major gay rights cases. Richard H. Fallon, a professor at Harvard Law School, said that it would be a mistake to read too much into “little bits of evidence like this” and that even if Alito held socially liberal views on gay rights, it would not necessarily mean that he would vote in favor of gay marriage or any other issue.
  “From the fact that someone thinks legislators ought to forbid discrimination,” he said, “it does not follow that the person would necessarily think that the Supreme Court of the United States ought to hold that the Constitution forbids discrimination against gays.”
  Indeed, the 1971 report rarely commented on what action the judiciary should take, focusing mostly in legislative action. The report covered what its undergraduate authors saw as increasing threats to privacy in the late 1960’s, questioning whether the “cybernetic revolution” would result in more invasions of privacy and criticizing government surveillance of “mild dissenters on the war in Vietnam.”
  Alito, who would probably rule on many privacy issues arising from the Bush administration’s pursuit of the war on terror, wrote in his 1971 introduction: “We are convinced that in recent years government has often used improper means to gather information about individuals who posed no threat either to their government or to their fellow citizens.”
  At the end Alito wrote: “The erosion of privacy, unlike war, economic bad times, or domestic unrest, does not jump to the citizen’s attention . . . But by the time privacy is seriously compromised, it is too late to clamor for reform.”
Human Rights Campaign President Joe Solmonese commented on Boston Globe report, noting that “this is a hopeful sign that may provide insight into his philosophy.”
  “There were very few people standing up for gay Americans 34 years ago and most who did have evolved even more since,” Solmonese said.

California Study Shows Sharp Drop In Gay Male Meth Use
San Francisco - San Francisco’s gay community may be seeing a significant drop in crystal methamphetamine use, according to research conducted by the nonprofit Stop AIDS Project and analyzed by the city’s Department of Public Health. The Stop AIDS Project conducted 4,197 individual surveys of gay and bisexual men between July 2003 and June 2005, project spokesman Jason Riggs said today. That data indicates a 40 percent drop in methamphetamine use within that time period, according to Riggs.
  In a news release, Riggs reported that “In late 2003, 18% of gay and bisexual men in San Francisco reported they had used crystal meth in the last six months. In the first half of 2005, 10% had reported using crystal meth in the last 6 months,” a 40% drop over two years. Those data are based on a series of surveys conducted of individuals by project volunteers at social and community events and on the street, Riggs said.
  Many subjects may have taken the anonymous survey multiple times, but those who took it within the prior six months are asked to indicate that, Riggs said. “We’ve been conducting the same kind of survey since the early ‘90s,’’ Riggs said. `The questions have stayed the same, so we have really good trend analysis.”
  H. Fisher Raymond and Willi McFarland of the Department of Public Health’s AIDS office indicated that, because the sample group is hard to identify, the data might be biased. However, they concurred with Riggs that the surveys are a good trend indicator. “We know that (the survey) has limitations and possible biases, but it’s one of the few pieces of information we’ve been collecting for so many years,” McFarland said.
  Raymond indicated that, although more than 4,000 surveys were conducted, the population of the sample group is probably around 800 to 1,300 people.
  The Stop AIDS Project’s findings have been taken with a grain of salt by some. McFarland mentioned Christopher Carrington, an assistant professor of sociology at San Francisco State University, who wondered in a Bay Area Reporter article whether the study indicated a real drop in use, or a reluctance to admit to using the drug due to an increased stigma associated with it. Which could mean, McFarland continued, that “you’re not changing the behavior, you’re changing people’s willingness to discuss the behavior, which could be counterproductive.”
  But Riggs said he doesn’t think a stigma associated with methamphetamine use would be a bad thing. “I don’t think we need to shame people who are addicts,” he said. “But we need to make sure people are informed. Nobody wants to be a crack whore, so it is stigmatizing because of what addicts become within the community.”
  The Stop AIDS Project announced that the recent data appear to buck the national trend of increased use, a trend that is corroborated by Gaetano Vaccaro, manager of clinical research at the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center. “We’re seeing a steady increase in both crystal meth availability and use here in L.A.,” Vaccaro said.
  He expressed doubt about the implications of the San Francisco surveys. “In my opinion, that is a very sharp decline that is hard to validate. Before we would believe that that is true, we would need to see it validated by an empirical study. That’s a lot and it doesn’t represent what we’re seeing here,” he said.
  Vaccaro cited data documented by the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center’s HIV counseling and testing program, which indicated an increase in the numbers of gay and bisexual men who use methamphetamine and test positive for HIV.
  But Vaccaro said he was hopeful that Stop AIDS’ data were an early indicator of a trend shift within the gay and bisexual male community. “We are encouraged by their findings because it means the kind of programs we’re working on might make a significant difference,” he said.

Star Trek’s Mr. Sulu: “I’m Gay!”
Los Angeles - George Takei, who as helmsman Sulu steered the Starship Enterprise through three television seasons and six movies, has come out as a homosexual in the current issue of Frontiers, a biweekly Los Angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.
 Takei told the Associated Press on October 27 that his new onstage role as psychologist Martin Dysart in “Equus,” helped inspire him to publicly discuss his sexuality. Takei described the character as a “very contained but turbulently frustrated man.” The play opened October 26 at the David Henry Hwang Theater in Los Angeles, the same day that Frontiers magazine featured a story on Takei’s coming out.
  The current social and political climate also motivated Takei’s disclosure, he said. “The world has changed from when I was a young teen feeling ashamed for being gay,” he said. “The issue of gay marriage is now a political issue. That would have been unthinkable when I was young.”
  The 68-year-old actor said he and his partner, Brad Altman, have been together for 18 years. Takei, a Japanese-American who lived in a U.S. internment camp from age 4 to 8, said he grew up feeling ashamed of his ethnicity and sexuality. He likened prejudice against gays to racial segregation. “It’s against basic decency and what American values stand for,” he said.
  Takei joined the “Star Trek” cast in 1966 as Hikaru Sulu, a character he played for three seasons on television and in six subsequent films. He received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 1986.
  A community activist, Takei ran for the Los Angeles City Council in 1973. He serves on the advisory committee of the California Civil Liberties Public Education Program and is chairman of East West Players, the theater company producing “Equus.”

Action Wisconsin Marks One Year Countdown To The Marriage Ballot
Madison -  The leading organization coordinating  statewide opposition to the expected November 2006 referendum on a constitutional ban on the legal recognition of unmarried couples, regardless of sexual orientation has formally announced the formal start of its campaign exactly one year in advance of the date here November 7.   Action Wisconsin launched its “Campaign Kick-off: The Countdown to the Ballot” with an open house and a series of canvasses.
 A Madison Door-to-Door walk, was held on Saturday, November 5, with about one hundred volunteers canvassing the gay supportive Atwood-Schenk neighborhood to talk to people about the proposed amendment,  and to find supporters and new volunteers. A Milwaukee door-to-door walk was held the next day by Center Advocate’s Equality Knocks volunteers, the group’s final canvass effort for 2005.
  Action Wisconsin held its first-ever Open House on November 8 at the organization’s State Street offices. Attendees met the staff and board folks who will be leading the historic effort to defeat the proposed constitutional ban on  civil unions and marriage, and got a peek at the group’s expanded offices.

UW-M Journal Publishes All-Gay Issue
Milwaukee - The Cream City Review, a literary biannual published out of UW-Milwaukee, has become the first mainstream literary magazine in America to publish an issue consisting entirely of contributions by gay, lesbian, and bisexual writers.
  Cream City Review is a literary journal with a history of supporting work that is socially progressive and politically conscious. The journal has, over the years, published work by many writers who identify as queer, but this is the first time that the journal has devoted an issue exclusively to this contingent of its contributors.
  Antler, the recent poet laureate of Milwaukee, believes that this special issue of Cream City Review has a wider significance for the region as a whole: “For Cream City Review to publish an entire issue dedicated to LGBT experience, awareness, sensitivity, and celebration is a major milestone not only for the English Dept and UW-M but for all of Milwaukee and the community of poets here.  And the Heartland.”
  And the magazine has drawn praise from all quarters. The most well-known poet to be included in Cream City’s current issue, Timothy Liu, wrote that, “Over the past couple of decades, Cream City Review has reinvented itself again and again, distilling the cultural pulse of American literary life, concocting for us a most wicked Midwestern brew.”
  Writer’s Digest proclaimed the Review “one of the ten best markets for non-traditional poetry.”
  Non-traditional indeed. In its focus on an awareness of gay and lesbian art and culture,  joins a burgeoning group of magazines and news outlets in Milwaukee this year, such as Outbound News, Quest, Queer Life and Edge, which strive to convey not only the sexuality of queerness, but the lifestyle in all its complexity and variety.
Cream City Review is celebrating its thirtieth year of publication in the Spring, and the Queer Writers Issue became available October 24th at many local Milwaukee bookstores, including Harry Schwartz, People’s Books, Woodland Pattern, Broad Vocabulary, and others.
  For more information, or to purchase copies of the journal, send inquiries to: Cream City Review, University of Wisconsin in Milwaukee, Department of English, PO Box 413, Milwaukee, WI 53201

Gift Itself To Offer Art Classes
Green Bay - The Gift Itself, a gallery in the historic Broadway district representing over 100 artists and crafts people, will offer a series of art classes beginning this month. Two November, beginner level classes will offer opportunities to create jewelry and turn clothing items into “works of art.”
  The Found Object Jewelry class, instructed by Al Buch, will be held November 9 and explore jewelry making with all of the things one has saved over the years. Students will be able to clean out junk drawers and make creative, fun jewelry. Using different techniques taught in this class, you will walk away with one-of-a-kind pieces that mean something to you! Class is approximately three hours long, and costs $35. Snacks will be served.
  Instructor Allen Buch is a Green Bay native and graduate of Northeastern Wisconsin Technical College’s Jewelry Repair and Fabrication program, holds a Bachelor degree from the University of Wisconsin Green Bay and a one year vocational degree in boat building from Northeastern Wisconsin Technical College in Sturgeon Bay. Allen and his partner opened their jewelry design company in 1991 and opened The Gift Itself gallery in 1993. The Gift Itself represents over 100 artists and is the home of Hand in Hand Partners, Inc., the partners’ jewelry design studio.
  The Paint Your Docs! class, instructed by Mary Sue Fenner, will be held on November 12. In approximately two hours, students will turn their leather or canvas shoes, boots, bags and belts into works of art. Following Mary Sue’s lead, students will paint accessories to match their favorite fabric swatch or any theme of their choice. Bring inspiration and one pair of plain leather or canvas shoes, boots, belt, purse or leather piece.  The class, which costs $40, will also expect students to provide acrylic paints and brushes, inexpensive containers and rubber stamps of their choice. Lots of samples will be available for students to look at before beginning their projects.
  Instructor Mary Sue Fenner is a professional instructor, weaver, artist, spinner and seamstress. She has written articles for Belle Annoire, Handwoven, Shuttle, Spindle and Dyepot magazines. Mary Sue was lucky enough to be the first teacher at Sievers School of Fiber Arts on Washington Island, Wisconsin in 1979 and returns every year. Her one of a kind garments are sold in area galleries and stores. When she is not working on her textiles she teaches full-time, Marketing & Graphics Communications at Northeast Wisconsin Technical College.
  For more information or to enroll in either class, contact the Gift Itself, at their 125 N. Broadway site or by phoning 920-433-9171.

Perfect Harmony To Perform Twice During Holiday Season
Madison - The Perfect Harmony Men’s Chorus has two public concerts coming up in the next month and a half.
The 35-voice men’s choir will perform at the Overture Center on Friday, November 18 accompanying the Kanopy Dance Company and be singing Benjamin Britten’s Ceremony of Carols to their choreography.  Show time is 7:30 PM. Tickets are $20 and can be purchased through the Overture Center’s box office or online at www.overturecenter.com.
  On Sunday, December 4  Perfect Harmony will be singing its annual Winter Concert at First Congregational Church, 1619 University Avenue. This year’s theme is “From Darkness To Light: A Winter Solstice Celebration.” Show time is 7 PM. Tickets are $12 or $9 for students and can be purchased  from a PMHC member, at the door, or via PayPal at the chorus’ website at: www.perfectharmonychorus.org.
  Perfect Harmony Men’s Chorus is Madison’s gay and gay-friendly men’s chorus. Perfect Harmony is a non-profit organization. Its singers and directors, and accompanist, and non-singing members serve in a volunteer capacity. With a singing membership of around 35 men, the chorus strives to provide gay bisexual, transgendered and gay friendly men with opportunities for the performance of choral music in a supportive and affirming environment.
  Through music, the chorus strives to enrich the lives of its members, the Madison Area lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) communities and the community at large. Perfect Harmony provides a visible presence and positive voice in and for the Madison LGBT communities. Perfect Harmony is also a member of GALA , an organization of Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered choruses across the world.

ARCW Picked As “Health Care Hero”
Milwaukee - ARCW has been selected to receive a Health Care Hero Award for outstanding community service by the Small Business Times in Milwaukee. The award will be presented at a “Meet the Heroes” awards breakfast on December 8.  Each year the Milwaukee-based business journal seeks nominations for health care heroes and presents awards for physicians, nurses, volunteers, health care corporations, health care advancements and community service.
  In announcing ARCW’s selection as a Health Care Hero, the Small Business Times specifically praised ARCW for accepting the transfer of  so many new patients to the ARCW Medical Clinic when Aurora’s Positive Health Clinic closed.

Sondheim Musical Review At Off The Wall
Milwaukee - Dale Gutzman and company at Off The Wall Theatre will present a rare musical comedy event, a staging of Stephen Sondheim’s  musical revue “Putting It Together.” The show will debut Thursday, November 10 for a twelve performance run at the theater, located at 127 N. Wells St, ending November 27.
  Like most Stephen Sondheim shows, “Putting It Together” has lots more to it than first meets the eye or ear.  The title itself refers to the fact that the show is made up of over thirty Sondheim songs first used in or cut from other shows of his. But it also refers to the structure of the show itself. The show is about putting together ideas of relationships and marriage. It focuses on a cocktail party at which four people and a narrator explore their own ambitions, longings, fear, desires, and doubts concerning love. We meet a couple who seem to have everything, but whose marriage has reached the stage of going through empty motions, and we meet two young ambitious guests who would love to change places with them.
  When Sondheim was in Chicago several seasons ago with his show “Bounce,” Gutzman talked with him over lunch about the delicate nature of the show. How it has to remain a revue, but still delve into the characters and their plight. It’s a character driven show, not a plot driven one.  The Sondheim Review, a magazine devoted to his works, a few years ago, named Gutzman one of the country’s “best Sondheim Directors.”  This new revue promises to be filled with the witty ironic side of the composer, but also features the kind of tug at the heart strings for which he is so well known.
  Music Director David Brady has been working for over a month with the cast of five on the difficult material. “This show seems to have almost every complex song Sondheim ever wrote. It’s a real challenge for the cast to simply learn it,” he commented recently.  It’s true, the songs in the show read like a list of Sondheim at his most brilliant and irritating.  Tunes in the ninety minute show include:  “Pretty Women,” “A Country House,” “Every Day a Little Death,” “Back in Business,” “Rich and Happy,” “Ladies who Lunch,” “Leave You,” “Buddy’s Blues,” “Not Getting Married Today,” and many more. In addition, there are several songs Sondheim has written for films including, “Back in Business,” and “More.”  And a beautiful new five part harmony arrangement of “Being Alive.”  One curious number in the show is a version of “Do I Hear a Waltz” that has never been done before. This is not the song Sondheim wrote with Richard Rogers for the show of that name, but a solo effort written several years before.
  The cast for the revue consists of Marilyn White, Bob Hirschi, Sharon Rise, Jeremy Welter, and J. P. Clemente.  White, Hirschi, Rise, and Welter are all Off the Wall regulars, and J. P. Clemente worked with Gutzman a decade ago and has since moved on to direct and choreograph on his own. Musical Director David Brady is putting together a talented combo of musicians for the intimate Off The Wall space.
  As usual, Scenic Designer David Roper is altering the entire theatre environment for the show. The audience will enter through the set into the auditorium. The multi-level set consisting of four separate playing areas and a long staircase will be painted vibrant colors assisted by a myriad of rope lights and optical effects.
  Seating in the small space is limited to fifty people a night, so early reservations are suggested.  Tickets are $22-26 and may be reserved by call the the box office at 414-327-3552. Wednesday and Thursday curtains are at 7:30 PM. Friday and Saturday shows start at 8 PM and all Sunday performances are 4 PM matinees.
  Don’t miss this exciting, witty, fun-filled, sly, musical theatre treat, presented by some of Milwaukee’s most talented performers in one of the city’s most charming intimate settings.

Thom Ertl: “Look What I Did!”
Milwaukee Gay Man’s Home Profiled On New HGTV Do-It-Yourself Series
Interview by Mike Fitzpatrick
Milwaukee - The producers of HGTV’s new series “Look What I Did” recently went looking for “unique, cool and creative projects designed and done by real people” without the help of contractors or interior design experts. One of their stops on their cross country talent search was on the east side of Milwaukee at the home of gay graphic artist Thom Ertl where he shared what producers call his “fun stories and incredible results” about the remodeling of the two-story home he shares with his partner Scott.
  In advance of the series’ mid-November debut on the cable network, Quest visited with Ertl and got the inside dish about how his episode segment came about.

Quest: Tell us a little about yourself.
Ertl: I’ve lived in Milwaukee since 1980 and have owned a house in the Riverwest part of city for the past nine years. I have always been a person with an artistic bent. My current occupation is as a free-lance graphic designer. I also have worked as a cosmetologist and a visual merchandising specialist.
Quest: Tell us a little about the program you’re going to be on.
Ertl: The program is called “Look What I Did” - or as I’m subtitling it - “Smell Me.” What basically happened is that I came back from a vacation right before Labor Day and was rifling through my messages at home. There was this message from a woman who was identifying herself as one of the producers of this new show on HGTV - Home & Garden Television - called “Look What I Did.”
  Immediately I thought: “Well, someone is playing a really cruel joke on me.” I know enough people who would be silly enough to do something like that. I went into it thinking “I’ll go with the joke until somebody screams ‘April Fools’ or whatever is going to be yelled.”
  I got in contact with her and she asked for background information on a specific project that I’d done with my house. The reason she had gotten in touch with me to begin with was the fact that I was profiled in the Entree section of the Sunday edition of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel two and a half years ago.
  A section of that article that discussed one of the rooms of my house - the room I’m calling the den. My house was built in 1919, an older home. In that room I tore out a closet. The existing walls were uneven. I was trying to find a way to camouflage that but do something more interesting than doing a stucco wall or textured wallpaper.
  The room had a lot of my industrial kind of stuff in it - for lack of a better term. I wanted to do something that was sort of metallic and graphic and linear. That’s when I came up with the idea of doing a metallic wall in there.
Quest: What was it like to have a television crew invade your house?
Ertl: Having done versions of videotaping before, I sort of knew what to expect as far as a production crew coming in. The HGTV crew was a producer, an associate producer, a sound and camera crew - like five people.
  What they first had me do is doing some very extemporaneous, unscripted kind of interview where I gave info about what I’d done to the house and the whole process of designing and decorating it. They were trying to have me sound scripted but spontaneous.
  Being that its a new show, I didn’t know exactly what their focus is. I knew they wanted people on the show who had done things to their house that was interesting but didn’t require an interior designer or contractor.
Quest: What was your take on the actual taping?
Ertl: It was fun. It was a six hour taping but within that six hours they were going to use about 5-7 minutes for the actual segment. They shot a lot of what they call “B-roll” which is stuff that doesn’t require any kind of audio. Then they did an interview with me as well as some demonstration shots, showing how I did the wall in my den as well a second demonstration on doing the ceilings in my living room, dining room and kitchen areas. The latter was weaving that was done with corrugated cardboard.
Quest: Is there anything they crew asked you to do that made you feel uncomfortable?
Ertl: One thing they were trying to have me (and my partner Scott) do was have everything come off as being big. They had me do some of that kind of big drama thing where I threw my arms out and screamed Look what I did!” Everything we did had to have a feel of an exclamation point at the end of it. While some of that could be done, there were moments where I felt kind of like “Oh please! Look what I did - my ass!”
Quest: As you know there’s an old saying that goes “Oh Mary, It takes a fairy to make something pretty in life.” Will that shine through in the program?
Ertl: And what part are you suggesting there? The “Mary” part? Or the fairy part? (laughs) Oh gee! I get to choose between “Mary” and “Fairy?”
Quest: No, I’m asking if the “gay angle” in your segment is going to show through to the viewers at home?
Ertl: Well, unless they’re Helen Keller - I would think so, yah! When we were discussing the whole process, they were talking to me about the elements of the shoot. They wanted to show me and my process but they also wanted sort of an affidavit shot to include in the final segment.
  When they talked to my partner Scott, they asked me who he was to me. They kept asking if he was my roommate. I kept saying: “No, he’s my partner.” There was this debate - not high drama or anything - but this discussion of what the terminology of Scott and my relationship should be. I asked them “What’s wrong with partner?” and they kept saying “Well, this is a conservative show - we’re not sure how America handle it.”
  I said the them: “Let’s put it in a different perspective. I’ve seen shows of this genre where they have a male and female on who have a baby, but they say that they’re no married. I’m sure there’s people out there who don’t consider that ‘status quo,’ but it’s still being shown. Or they’re showing a male-female couple of different enthnicities. And that may not sit well with Joe Public in Bumblefuck. Our relationship is a fact of life.”
Quest: Are you telling all your friends to tune in and watch?
Ertl: Well, the way it stands now is that the show is scheduled to be debuting on HGTV on November 21.  I won’t know exactly when my segment is going to air until Friday, November 18. I was told it will be within a four month period of the show’s debut. But I don’t know now when it exactly will air.
Quest: Will it repeat over and over like so many of those cable home improvement shows?
Ertl: I think so. It’s part of a series. It’s one of those kind of shows that will be shown multiple times.
Quest: Any reservations about what the show is going to look like?
Ertl: I’m not nervous but I’m kind of a little concerned about what are they going to do with this (the footage).  I have no idea what the end product is supposed to be. For all I know this is going to be so schmaltzy and queer that I could be throwing up a little bit in my mouth as I’m watching it. After this they might change the name of the show to “Look What Mary Did!”
Quest: That show’s already on the air. It’s called “Queer Eye For The Straight Guy” or Christopher Lowell.
Ertl: Yeah, we don’t want to do that again. He’s the Rudy Galindo of fabric!
Quest: Were you compensated in any for this?
Ertl: No. the only compensation is -you know - going public with what I’ve done and seeing where it goes from there, at this stage of the game.
Quest: So the only payment is to be able to go up to a person and say “Look what I did!”
Ertl: Shut up! Spare me! (laughs)

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